Feelings heated over Dynes

scotto

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#1
August 04, 2007
Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator
(Aug 4, 2007)
Emotions are flowing like draught beer over demolition this week of the Dynes Tavern to make way for a housing plan.

The City of Hamilton says property owner Anthony DePasquale may face $200,000 in fines for demolishing the 160-year-old tavern without a permit.

DePasquale applied in May for a permit to demolish the tavern, but it was delayed by heritage concerns. The tavern came down anyway, leaving heated opinions on both sides of the debate.

"I don't know anybody who's pleased about this coming down," said Fred Briggs, 70, a former Beach resident, historian and a regular at reunions. Beach reunions were held at Dynes for years as other Beach buildings fell.

Well, Briggs may not know Mark-Alan Whittle, who posted comments online to The Spec's Hallmarks blog: "The Dynes was a fire trap that would need millions to restore. ... When will city council stop living in the past, some bygone era that's long gone?"

In an interview, Hamilton Chamber of Commerce chief executive officer John Dolbec was critical of what he sees as a broken process at city hall.

He said delays needlessly pushed DePasquale to his deadline on a deal with Branthaven Homes. "It just shows the system doesn't work," Dolbec said. "Business people like other citizens have to obey the law ... and I'm not encouraging them to flout regulations.

"But having said all that, how long do you have to wait to get a permit when you've got a million-dollar transaction in process, as in this case?"

The case should have been expedited, he said.

"As a city, we are not terribly friendly for business," he said. "A frequent complaint I hear is that nothing is predictable" when it comes to the process for local business deals.

"My read is: This is a call to action that the city has to get its house in order, expediting permits and expediting process so someone who buys a property can do something with it and plan for predictable outcomes."

On the Hallmarks blog, run by Spectator urban affairs reporter Nicole MacIntyre, 25 comments on the Dynes had appeared by mid-afternoon yesterday.

"When is it ever a 'smart move' to flout due process?" asked Helen Highwater. "The sense of entitlement and exceptionalism of builders and developers in this town is sickening."

Howard Wood was glad it was torn down before it became a heritage site: "This city is famous for designating a building as a heritage site and then letting the building sit as an eyesore for 30 years before they do anything."

Others weren't sure where they stand on the issue. "I'm kind of on the fence with this," one wrote. "On the one hand, it is refreshing to see someone make a decision and then do it. ... Heritage-wise, I suppose it is always sad to see a building with such history demolished, especially when cheap, carbon-copy, cardboard boxes will be put up in its place at $300,000-plus per unit."

Others wished DePasquale followed due process. One railed against "wanton lawlessness." One wished city council would act more decisively against "cowboy" behaviour.

Beach resident Scott Howley laments the passing of a Beach Strip landmark: the Dynes Tavern was built in 1846, became a centre of waterfront life, and acted as a community hall for many Beach functions. "It was a meeting spot and, while I didn't go there all the time, I tried to make my rounds," Howley said. "Your buddy was sitting at the bar, the waitresses and the manager were always friendly."

rfaulkner@thespec.com

905-526-2468

See http://hallmarks.thespec.com/
 

scotto

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#3
From what I understand, they didn't want to keep the whole tavern. They wanted to take part of the front and MOVE it to a new location. But by the time they got there to stop demolition, it was to late to save the part they wanted to move.
Yes, just the historical part was wanted. The rest is the result of many renovations over the years.
 

scotto

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#5
Really do you think they could really remove the top part of the Dynes, keep it intact and move it. Actually, move it where?
That was one of the recommendations from the consultants report, many homes large and small were moved from Van Wagner's to the Beach after Hurricane Hazel did all her damage there back in the 50's. So, in this day and age engineers could find a way. As for a new location, your guess is a good as mine. There is still lots of room down here but it seems to be getting very expensive.
Doesn't really matter now, it's gone but it would of been a nice try and with the Dynes gone I don't think any group of neighbours will let a tavern near or in their section of the Beach. Oh well.
Good question though.
 

scotto

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#8
There has been some serious discussion concerning the moving of the oldest buildings on the Beach, the historical lighthouse and lighthouses keeper's house. I have no idea how that could be done as the Lighthouse is six feet thick in the lower section, but apparently it can be.
Homes in the old days were built with real measured trusses and beams. A 2X4 was a 2X4, not like today's much thinner structural wood. Roofs were always 16" apart, now usually the wider 24" as every little bit saves money.
So, I still say it could have been done with today's technology, but again it doesn't matter as the Dynes is gone.
 

YNOT

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Jul 1, 2005
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#9
I won't pretend to know how to do your job, but is everyone a building engineer now? Dyne's original beams had rotted off decades ago and the building which was demolished was supported by under-spec steel I-beams which in todays building codes would had never passed inspection.
The roof, as confirmed during demolition, was totally rotted (Doug's kitchen ceiling could have collapsed at any time during the next rain storm).

Those of you that actually came to the Dynes will know of all of the leaks both upstairs and in the lower dining room and by the pool tables.

Did anyone other than me notice the dormers leaning inwards more and more as time passed (the rafters had cracked last winter) and Ivan had temporarily propted them up. If not for the demolition, the chimney on the west side would have had to be knocked down for safety reasons, the same held true when the siding on the front was falling on the sidewalk a couple years ago and was removed and replaced with stucco for safety and little astetics.

Only staff can appreciate the constant work in the basement (dungen) to keep proping up this old building with presue treated 4"x4". Despite lossing money every month the bulding was maintained to the best of my abilities (new roof over patio bar, fresh coat of paint in the outside bathrooms and kitchen, constant replacement of plumbing and electrical); even upstairs was renovated and rented out as rooming house for the first time in decades (primarily to assist staff that could not get public transit to work given the hours of operation).

As old as it was we always passed our health inspections and that was no accident.

Dynes lovers should know we were willing to build a replica of the Dynes in its original form on another site (location to be determined) along the beach but this did not seem to be of interest when tabled.

Glad to have had the opportunity to meet many of you and still enjoy having drinks with the "gang" at the new watering hole.:wavey:
 

scotto

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#10
The consultant didn't mention much about that in the report, so I only assumed it was possible. Who knows what an engineer would of came up with. I'm only the messenger on that one.
But once again it is a moot point now.
Didn't know there was a plan build replica, but again it only takes one resident to say no and it won't go if alcohol is involved. As shown in the past with bike night, there is always one.
I also have no idea if a resident could complain of a watering hole in the exact same spot.
 

shamsson

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#12
Woah Woah!!! Dynes is really GONE???? I heard Dynes went downhill, but I thought being that it is a historical landmark, they wouldn't do it and preserve it. I used to eat there all the time when I was a kid. I'd run from the gas station with $2-$3 bucks and get something good like roast beef or ribs. What led to its closure? Why?
 

shamsson

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#14
Wow! So many memories of Dynes just linger through my head. I remember coming in from the front door and going through the dining room to get to the kitchen to place "to go" orders. Playing pinball when waiting for chicken wings to be cooked. They had the best fries too. I also remember a dog living upstairs and his name was "Lupo". Some ladies who come to mind that used to work there were "Connie" the italian lady back in the early 80s, Hazel, and a lady named Mary. They all worked in the kitchen. I remember the waitresses at the bar who had those change dispensers.
 

scotto

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#15
Wow! So many memories of Dynes just linger through my head. I remember coming in from the front door and going through the dining room to get to the kitchen to place "to go" orders. Playing pinball when waiting for chicken wings to be cooked. They had the best fries too. I also remember a dog living upstairs and his name was "Lupo". Some ladies who come to mind that used to work there were "Connie" the italian lady back in the early 80s, Hazel, and a lady named Mary. They all worked in the kitchen. I remember the waitresses at the bar who had those change dispensers.
That was back before Gord Foster era, when Charlie ran the place. Charlie had a partner who helped run the the Dynes, but he passed away. I can't remember his name, but his wife was Connie. She stayed and worked the kitchen for many years after her husband's death.
Hazel worked in the kitchen for many years and I use to rent her cottage every summer back then. She and her husband always had a drink or two after she finished her shift. Wonder what happen to those two?
I don't recall a Mary working there and I do remember Lupo (that's wolf in italian).
 

shamsson

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#16
I remember Hazel. Her husband is Ted. I heard they moved up north somewhere. Mary was there in the late 80s. She drove a K kar I think. I remember Charlie now. I think Connie lived upstairs at one point. I remember her kids Nina and JaJindo (sp). Even thought it was so long ago, I remember a lot of it like it was yesterday.
 

scotto

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#17
I still don't recall Mary and yes, Ted was Hazel's husband. They must of moved up to their cottage year round as Brian S. now owns their old house. Brian was also a past owner of the Dynes.
 
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