Paul Grimwood
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
Paul Grimwood
Ancaster
Elsinor was designed by architect W. Stewart. http://www.dictionaryofarchitectsincanada.org/architects/view/1332
________________________________________
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
Paul Grimwood
Ancaster
Elsinor was designed by architect W. Stewart. http://www.dictionaryofarchitectsincanada.org/architects/view/1332
________________________________________
Fred Briggs
08-31-2007, 11:18 AM
If we're not talking about gas stations, it must be the other kind of station.
There were no stations with buildings. like the Radial Terminal, later the Bus Terminal, uptown in Hamilton.
The old Hamilton Northwestern Railway had 4 stops on the Beach. I understand that they were called stations, but I don't think that any of them even had platforms. The first one was where the railroad entered the Beach, the second was at Dynes Hotel, the third was at Elsinore, and the fourth was at the Ocean House, almost at the canal.
The railroad stopped providing local service, and local stops, shortly after the Radial Railway came to the Beach. It made several stops along the Beach, all of which were called Stations. When the Radial Line withdrew from the Beach and buses replaced their cars, the buses stopped at the same spots, and the Station numbers were kept.
I know that in the 40's there were Stations 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, and 16. Some people might recall some that I don't, and I can't argue with them. I suspect that 1 and maybe 2 were before the cars reached the Beach. I don't know if there was ever a 3 on the Beach. Station 4 was at Huey Dalzell's store, 5 was at the little convenience store (but they weren't called that then) next to the Texaco Station a little south of the school, and 6 was just north of the school about where the new Shutters business stands now.
I never got on or off a bus further north of Station 6, so I don't know exactly where the others were, but when you asked somewhere where he lived he would say "near Station 8" or "at Station 12", and that was always close enough for me! I'm sure there are many people still on the beach who could give you exact information on the location of those north of 6.
I don't know if there were once Stations 7, 11, 13, 15, etc., and they were later dropped, or if they were never assigned, to leave room for future growth, the way Interchanges on our highways are numbered now, leaving room for more interchanges to be added later between the present ones.
I'm sorry I could be more helpful on this, and I look forward to hearing more details from those who do know!
Fred,
This thread indicates that in 1954 it was the Canada Coach that was providing bus service on the beach. And that the buses stopped at ‘station 24’.
http://hamiltonbeachcommunity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2230.html
“The Canada Coach Bus Lines stated it will not require the parking area at the canal park for turning etc. This area will be reincorporated into the main body of the park.”
“Hamilton Beach, Feb. 4 — The inconvenience of the new hourly bus service during the week days was under extensive discussion at the Burlington Beach Property Owners Association meeting. Reginald Wheeler, association president, hoped that the Canada Coach Lines would remedy as many of these complaints as possible.”
“On request for a street light at Station 24 by the bus stop, the matter had already been attended to.”
And this thread indicates by 1956, the Hamilton Street railway (HSR) had taken over.
http://hamiltonbeachcommunity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1977.html
No Transfers To Local Buses
To the Editor:
Some time ago, you published a letter of mine to which 1 would like to refer with your permission.
The reason for writing the letter was brought on by an incident which took place on a Beach bus bound for Hamilton. This incident was no doubt influenced by the news that the Beach buses had been taken over by the Hamilton Street Railway, and that the Beach was shortly .going to be annexed by the city of Hamilton.
As I previously related in my letter, several residents of the Beach of that particular bus started asking the bus operator for transfers, but were told that no transfers are issued to Hamilton buses.
The Beach passenger were apparently under the impression at that time they were entitled to transfers, and told the bus driver so in no uncertain terms. However, he rightly told them that it was a matter that they could take up with the head office, and that it did not concern him. A footnote to my letter by the Editor explained that in an earlier edi¬tion of the Spectator it had been stated by Mr. Todd of the Hamilton Street Railway that he was going to attend a meeting of the Ontario Municipal Board in February of this year, and that he was bringing this matter to their attention. Since then we on the Beach have heard nothing further on the outcome of that meeting about the issuing of transfers. We should therefore appreciate finding out at this time, if the matter of issuing transfers to Hamilton Street Railway buses met with a favourable response from the Ontario Railway Board, and if so, when is it going to take effect? Hundreds of Beach residents who use the Beach bus regularly to and from their places of employment, and who have to walk long distances, experience a hardship — especially in winter — on account of there being no transfer accommodations.
William Johnston
We are informed that, for the present, the Hamilton Street Railway contemplates no change in the present Beach fare and transfer structure. According to an Ontario Municipal Board decision, transfers are given only on routes within the city limits as they were at the time of the fare increase in 1952. — Editor
08-31-2007, 11:18 AM
If we're not talking about gas stations, it must be the other kind of station.
There were no stations with buildings. like the Radial Terminal, later the Bus Terminal, uptown in Hamilton.
The old Hamilton Northwestern Railway had 4 stops on the Beach. I understand that they were called stations, but I don't think that any of them even had platforms. The first one was where the railroad entered the Beach, the second was at Dynes Hotel, the third was at Elsinore, and the fourth was at the Ocean House, almost at the canal.
The railroad stopped providing local service, and local stops, shortly after the Radial Railway came to the Beach. It made several stops along the Beach, all of which were called Stations. When the Radial Line withdrew from the Beach and buses replaced their cars, the buses stopped at the same spots, and the Station numbers were kept.
I know that in the 40's there were Stations 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, and 16. Some people might recall some that I don't, and I can't argue with them. I suspect that 1 and maybe 2 were before the cars reached the Beach. I don't know if there was ever a 3 on the Beach. Station 4 was at Huey Dalzell's store, 5 was at the little convenience store (but they weren't called that then) next to the Texaco Station a little south of the school, and 6 was just north of the school about where the new Shutters business stands now.
I never got on or off a bus further north of Station 6, so I don't know exactly where the others were, but when you asked somewhere where he lived he would say "near Station 8" or "at Station 12", and that was always close enough for me! I'm sure there are many people still on the beach who could give you exact information on the location of those north of 6.
I don't know if there were once Stations 7, 11, 13, 15, etc., and they were later dropped, or if they were never assigned, to leave room for future growth, the way Interchanges on our highways are numbered now, leaving room for more interchanges to be added later between the present ones.
I'm sorry I could be more helpful on this, and I look forward to hearing more details from those who do know!
Fred,
This thread indicates that in 1954 it was the Canada Coach that was providing bus service on the beach. And that the buses stopped at ‘station 24’.
http://hamiltonbeachcommunity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2230.html
“The Canada Coach Bus Lines stated it will not require the parking area at the canal park for turning etc. This area will be reincorporated into the main body of the park.”
“Hamilton Beach, Feb. 4 — The inconvenience of the new hourly bus service during the week days was under extensive discussion at the Burlington Beach Property Owners Association meeting. Reginald Wheeler, association president, hoped that the Canada Coach Lines would remedy as many of these complaints as possible.”
“On request for a street light at Station 24 by the bus stop, the matter had already been attended to.”
And this thread indicates by 1956, the Hamilton Street railway (HSR) had taken over.
http://hamiltonbeachcommunity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1977.html
No Transfers To Local Buses
To the Editor:
Some time ago, you published a letter of mine to which 1 would like to refer with your permission.
The reason for writing the letter was brought on by an incident which took place on a Beach bus bound for Hamilton. This incident was no doubt influenced by the news that the Beach buses had been taken over by the Hamilton Street Railway, and that the Beach was shortly .going to be annexed by the city of Hamilton.
As I previously related in my letter, several residents of the Beach of that particular bus started asking the bus operator for transfers, but were told that no transfers are issued to Hamilton buses.
The Beach passenger were apparently under the impression at that time they were entitled to transfers, and told the bus driver so in no uncertain terms. However, he rightly told them that it was a matter that they could take up with the head office, and that it did not concern him. A footnote to my letter by the Editor explained that in an earlier edi¬tion of the Spectator it had been stated by Mr. Todd of the Hamilton Street Railway that he was going to attend a meeting of the Ontario Municipal Board in February of this year, and that he was bringing this matter to their attention. Since then we on the Beach have heard nothing further on the outcome of that meeting about the issuing of transfers. We should therefore appreciate finding out at this time, if the matter of issuing transfers to Hamilton Street Railway buses met with a favourable response from the Ontario Railway Board, and if so, when is it going to take effect? Hundreds of Beach residents who use the Beach bus regularly to and from their places of employment, and who have to walk long distances, experience a hardship — especially in winter — on account of there being no transfer accommodations.
William Johnston
We are informed that, for the present, the Hamilton Street Railway contemplates no change in the present Beach fare and transfer structure. According to an Ontario Municipal Board decision, transfers are given only on routes within the city limits as they were at the time of the fare increase in 1952. — Editor
From Fred;
I have no evidence that the radial line ever ran along the bay shore! As far as I know, it ALWAYS ran between the Beach Road, and the Railway Tracks, with large home lots between the two railways. Most of the side streets, lanes, and alleys, had very few houses on them, with a rare maximum of about
20 houses (I'm guessing here) and would never make it necessary to "move"
the car stops.
Fred, were the 20 houses, on ‘the Beach Road’ or on the side streets?
“By the summer of 1895, the city of Hamilton had formal control over about one-third of the total land area of the beach strip and of the land it controlled, about one-fifth already had been leased to private individuals. Other parts of the city's land had been devoted to six short avenues running between the central beach road and the lake. These landscaped avenues would allow for further property development while ensuring that those who had built summer residences would continue to be able to reach the lake.”
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/"The+...inst+Them:"+Class,+Environment,...-a081762577
‘1895’ is one year before the radial began opperating, and about nineteen years after the Hamilton and Northwestern Railroad (1876) commenced opperations. So did these six avenues cross both the radial’s and railroad’s tracks?
It’s interesting that you capetallize ‘Beach Road’, but this page doesn’t. so the question is, in 1895, was the road down the centre of the beach officially called ‘Beach Road’? I presume you are talking about the same road.
And another question that comes up again is, ‘in 1895, was the land on the south side of the canal, leased, or owned by the home owners’? This page seems to indicate that it was leased. But Scott has said in another thread that it was owned, whereas on the north side, it was leased.
And finally, did the radial buy the land on the beach, from the home owners, or the city of Hamilton? And why weren’t the radial tracks built on ‘the road’, as they were everywhere else?
I have no evidence that the radial line ever ran along the bay shore! As far as I know, it ALWAYS ran between the Beach Road, and the Railway Tracks, with large home lots between the two railways. Most of the side streets, lanes, and alleys, had very few houses on them, with a rare maximum of about
20 houses (I'm guessing here) and would never make it necessary to "move"
the car stops.
Fred, were the 20 houses, on ‘the Beach Road’ or on the side streets?
“By the summer of 1895, the city of Hamilton had formal control over about one-third of the total land area of the beach strip and of the land it controlled, about one-fifth already had been leased to private individuals. Other parts of the city's land had been devoted to six short avenues running between the central beach road and the lake. These landscaped avenues would allow for further property development while ensuring that those who had built summer residences would continue to be able to reach the lake.”
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/"The+...inst+Them:"+Class,+Environment,...-a081762577
‘1895’ is one year before the radial began opperating, and about nineteen years after the Hamilton and Northwestern Railroad (1876) commenced opperations. So did these six avenues cross both the radial’s and railroad’s tracks?
It’s interesting that you capetallize ‘Beach Road’, but this page doesn’t. so the question is, in 1895, was the road down the centre of the beach officially called ‘Beach Road’? I presume you are talking about the same road.
And another question that comes up again is, ‘in 1895, was the land on the south side of the canal, leased, or owned by the home owners’? This page seems to indicate that it was leased. But Scott has said in another thread that it was owned, whereas on the north side, it was leased.
And finally, did the radial buy the land on the beach, from the home owners, or the city of Hamilton? And why weren’t the radial tracks built on ‘the road’, as they were everywhere else?
Just adding one more site that seems interesting, I don't see it here;
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/radial/hamilton.htm
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/radial/hamilton.htm
I have added these two to the Burlington Canal Bridges thread as well;
BURLINGTON BEACH CANAL SWING BRIDGE (FOLLOWED BY A 90-CLASS STEPHENSON-BUILT CAR)
ROUTE SIGN: HAMILTON, BURLINGTON & OAKVILLE
DATE: BEFORE 1921
© JOHN F BROMLEY, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, please do not re-use without permission.
One more circa 1907; .
© JOHN F BROMLEY, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, please do not re-use without permission
BURLINGTON BEACH CANAL SWING BRIDGE (FOLLOWED BY A 90-CLASS STEPHENSON-BUILT CAR)
ROUTE SIGN: HAMILTON, BURLINGTON & OAKVILLE
DATE: BEFORE 1921
© JOHN F BROMLEY, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, please do not re-use without permission.
One more circa 1907; .
© JOHN F BROMLEY, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, please do not re-use without permission
David asked that this be added in;
Paul Grimwood
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
Here is a biography on Senator Sanford.
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/sanford_william_eli_12E.html
is there any information on the size of Elsinore and the number of rooms?
Paul Grimwood
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
Here is a biography on Senator Sanford.
http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/sanford_william_eli_12E.html
is there any information on the size of Elsinore and the number of rooms?
Paul Grimwood
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
This page has a picture of Elsinore House, and a caption indicating that the architect was William Stewart.
http://vitacollections.ca/burlingtonhistoricalsociety/2351080/data?n=10
08-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.
I believe that Elsinore closed in 1922, but I may be wrong in this.
The Sanford's also owned at least one cottage at the beach, one named Green Gables. I have the exact address of that one somewhere, but it no longer exists.
This page has a picture of Elsinore House, and a caption indicating that the architect was William Stewart.
http://vitacollections.ca/burlingtonhistoricalsociety/2351080/data?n=10