The Railroad’s and Radial’s Beach Stops

[David O'Reilly]

Paul Grimwood
“Can anyone confirm the actual site of Elsinore, Senator Sanford's provate hospital on the Beach? When it was opened in June 1890, guests were taken by a private train to 'Church Crossing', and walked from there.”


Fred
“Before the Radial Line came to the Beach, the railway stopped at a platform behind Elsinore, and Elsinore also had a dock or pier on the bayfront.
While Elsinore was definitely on the Lake side of the road, there are people from the beach who believe that it was on the Bay side.”

Hi Paul and Fred, I wish I had found this before making my last post.

1893 - “The Hamilton Steamboat Co. was calling for tenders for the construction of a wharf at Burlington Beach on the 30 January. It was to be situated on the Armstrong property, near Church Crossing and was to be 600 feet long. It was primarily for the use of the steamer MAZEPPA.”
http://www.maritimehistoryofthegreatlakes.ca/documents/Brookes/default.asp?ID=Y1893

Fred,
(1) was this the same pier as was refered to in my last post?
(2) , what was ‘church crossing’?
(3) Where does the ‘armstrong property’ fit in to things? Was this a family who lived on the beach?

 

[David O'Reilly]

Getting Back to the issue of the location of the radial’s stops, This thread seems to indicate that ‘station 9’ was at the inlet.
http://hamiltonbeachcommunity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-413.html

 

[David O'Reilly]

There’s something here that we haven’t considered. The radial line operated from 1896 to 1929. So with the opening of new north/south streets, and the construction of new homes and businesses, maybe its stops had to be relocated from time to time.

 

[Drogo]

I don't think the Stations changed. Old Beach people have indentified places on the Beach, by the closest station, since they were started. People who say they are from Station 10 never seem to worry that people won't know where that is.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Drogo, the ‘old beach peaple’ who are still living, weren’t living in 1896 when the radial began operating. But now that I think about it, the radial tracks ran right along the bay shore. And so any subsequently constructed streets and buildings, would have been to the east. And therefore the stops wouldn’t have had to have been moved.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Thanks for that correction Fred.

So how many 'east/west' side streets, Lanes, and alleys, were there, in 1896 when the radial began operating. I always thought that the reason the line's beach stops were numbered, was because there weren't any side streets. What I mean is, today in Hamilton, the King Street bus just to choos one, crosses James Street, Huson Street, and John Street, and so on. so did the beach side streets have names in 1896?

 

[Drogo]

Drogo, the ‘old beach peaple’ who are still living, weren’t living in 1896 when the radial began operating. But now that I think about it, the radial tracks ran right along the bay shore. And so any subsequently constructed streets and buildings, would have been to the east. And therefore the stops wouldn’t have had to have been moved.

David
When I talk about the old Beach people I mean old Beach people. My Dad was on the Beach in 1925. His Mother is from the Corey people of the Beach from 1823-24 when Morris Corey arrived with his family 3 days after John Dynes. Morris and John were the only ones that very early were allowed to purchase a piece of the Military Reserve. The Corey's have been fisherman forever. Dad is also related to John Hazell ca 1850. He always talked fondly of "Old Mort Corey" born 1879 died 1965. Although I don't KNOW them I know about them. Mort certainly was old enough to have passed on stories pre Radial Line. I didn't know there were street names on the Beach. We lived at 814. You didn't say Beach Blvd when I was little. You hunted at Station 9 or 10. If you ran to the store it was Knowles. If you said "the sisters" it was the Knowles sisters. Mention the name Corey and many people groan. They were colourful characters if nothing else. Peter VanWagoner was the Justice of the Peace for a long time and I can bet that of all the disputes he handled the single most used name was Corey in his writings. If they didn't do it they knew who did. Now that I am reading about early smuggling on the Beach I am leary to find a list of names. Dad's great great grandfather was Nehemiah Corey who owned the Corey Hotel at the Canal in 1833. I come from a long line of story tellers. I am the last one. No one to carry on from this line. That is why it is important to me to get it on paper and my website.

 

[Sharla1]

Did they ever have trolley busses on Beach Blvd? I don't remember them in that location.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Sharla1
“Did they ever have trolley busses on Beach Blvd? I don't remember them in that location.”

Sharla, no, the trolley routes were only in Hamilton and Stoney Creek. here is a link to a page with the information.
http://hamiltontransithistory.alotspace.com/Trolleys.html

 

[Sharla1]

Thanks for the info and the link David.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Scott,
“From the book, Hamilton's Other Railway
Many thanks to Charles Cooper for allowing his work to be posted.
__________________________________________________ ______
After the trains out of Hamilton had passed the "Waterworks siding" (constructed by 1880, its switch facing towards Hamilton) and crossed the last of the inlet trestles, in the GTR era the first station to greet visitors was Beach Road, located near the junction of what is now Beach Boulevard and Van Wagners Beach Road. It was built in 1890, and served until the end of passenger service in 1896. It survived as a private residence until the late 1970s/early 1980s, when it was bought by the City of Hamilton as part of a "green space" program, resulting in its demolition.
The next stop was at Dyne's Hotel. This establishment has survived (rebuilt after a fire in 1882) on the same site as Dyne's Tavern. (Dating from 1846, Dyne's is said to be the oldest continuously operated public house in Ontario.)
The Dynes railway stop still appeared in a 1903 GTR timetable, but if there ever was a platform, it was not included in the 1907 GTR B&B inventory.
Then came a halt at an imposing mansion by the name of "Elsinore", built in 1890 as a convalescent home for needy children (by the same architect [William Stewart] who designed the Hamilton Yacht Club). Its 1891 flag stop shelter was about twice as long as the station at Beach Road.
The Baldry Hotel had burned down in 1874, and in its place there was erected the prestigious Ocean House Hotel. The GTR built a flag stop shelter there in 1894, slightly smaller than the station at Beach Road. The hotel did not have long to get the benefit of the shelter, because this grand establishment passed into history in a spectacular fire in 1895. It appears that the Ocean House Hotel was used as overnight accommodation for railway inspection trips (requiring a siding for the train). Coincidentally the inquest into the 1891 Canal bridge accident (see below) refers to a siding approximately 100 yards south of the Ocean House Hotel platform. With the frequency of the Beach trains, a passing siding somewhere on the Beach had to be an operational necessity, and it is therefore likely that this siding was installed with the commencement of the Beach train service.
The Ocean House Hotel and the Hamilton Yacht Club (which opened at the Canal in 1891), were two of "high society's" favourite haunts. The Hamilton Yacht Club likewise went up in smoke in 1915-
On the Burlington side of the Canal, there were three early flag stops, namely Hargrove, Gibson's Landing and Brant House. Hargrove and Gibson's Landing were still shown in a 1903 GTR public timetable, but Brant House, a very popular location for picnics, dances and concerts during the Beach's height of popularity, had already been dropped. In the 20-year interval between the demise of the Ocean House and the Yacht Club, the resort era started to decline, but remained popular for picnics and special excursion trains.

All the Beach stop locations except arguably for Dynes have since passed into obscurity, but the author recalls there was still a signboard "CN Hargrove" in 1978.”

Scott, does Charles Cooper indicate in his book whether the Hamilton and North Western Railroad provided passenger service right from the outset?
________________________________________

 

[David O'Reilly]

Just to expand and clarify my last post. The Hamilton and Northwestern Railroad (H&NW) began operating along the beach in about 1878. It was purchased by the Grand Trunk Railroad (GTR) in 1888.
http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/205/301/ic/cdc/industrial/hamiltonnw.htm

The information that Scott has quoted from Charles Cooper on the ‘beach stops’ is about the GTR’s stops. But there’s nothing about any H&NW stops.

Unfortunately the link that I have provided doesn’t say anything about the H&NW operating on the beach.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I’m beginning to think that the Hamilton and North Western Railroad (H&NW) (which began operating across the beach in 1878 ) never provided passenger service at all. And, according to what Scott has quoted from Charles Cooper, it seems that the Grand Trunk railroad (GTR) (which purchased the H&NW in 1888) only started passenger service on the former H&NW in 1890. So that would mean that the public couldn’t have travelled to the beach by train, until 1890. And ‘1890’, was only six years before the radial line began operating to the beach. And so that would mean, that there were a lot more people who travelled to the beach by steamer, much later than I had thought.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Charles Coopper indicated in an e-mail reply yesterday, that the Hamilton and North Western Railroad (H&NW) did in fact provide passenger service to the beach when it started operations in 1877. And that the stops were Dynes, Elsinore, Ocean House and Hargrove, Gibson's Landing and Brant House. And that The GTR built the Beach Road station in 1890, as a control point for the trains taking the new short cut across to Stoney Creek.

 

[David O'Reilly]

But now looking back at where Scott quoted from Charles Cooper’s book, it seems that ‘Elsinor’ wasn’t built until 1890.

 

[scotto]

Thanks for that correction Fred.

So how many ‘east/west’ side streets, Lanes, and alleys, were there, in 1896 when the radial began operating. I always thought that the reason the line’s beach stops were numbered, was because there weren’t any side streets. What I mean is, today in Hamilton, the King Street bus just to choos one, crosses James Street, Huson Street, and John Street, and so on. so did the beach side streets have names in 1896?

From Fred;
I have no evidence that the radial line ever ran along the bay shore! As far as I know, it ALWAYS ran between the Beach Road, and the Railway Tracks, with large home lots between the two railways. Most of the side streets, lanes, and alleys, had very few houses on them, with a rare maximum of about
20 houses (I'm guessing here) and would never make it necessary to "move"
the car stops.

Fred

 

[David O'Reilly]

Charles Cooper indicated in an e-mail today, that he has a News paper article for 1877 anouncing the start of the Hamilton and North Western Railroad’s (H&NW) beach trains, which listed Ocean House and Brant House. He says that the timetable shows 6 trains weekdays and later also 4 on Saturday.
And that the Beach trains were seasonal, running from April to October.
He said that ‘Hargrove’ may also have been an early one, and that he thinks he recalls a reference to an engine house there.

 

[Drogo]

From Fred;
I have no evidence that the radial line ever ran along the bay shore! As far as I know, it ALWAYS ran between the Beach Road, and the Railway Tracks, with large home lots between the two railways. Most of the side streets, lanes, and alleys, had very few houses on them, with a rare maximum of about
20 houses (I'm guessing here) and would never make it necessary to "move"
the car stops.

Fred

Glad you popped in on that one Fred. Being much closer to the inception of the Radial car I knew you would have the answer. (KEEP SMILING). I have never heard of the cars stops being changed. They weren't fighting any major traffic to speak of.

Keep putting your two cents in because I usually find another gem I'm looking for. If you have read the queries on the inlet picture at station 9 or looked at the picture I put up in that gallery that I think is the old outlet taken about the same time as the picture looking north from the lighthouse (think it was taken in about the mid 1860s) would you respond on those threads please? You are staying too quiet!

 

[David O'Reilly]

Fred
“I have no evidence that the radial line ever ran along the bay shore! As far as I know, it ALWAYS ran between the Beach Road, and the Railway Tracks, with large home lots between the two railways. Most of the side streets, lanes, and alleys, had very few houses on them, with a rare maximum of about
20 houses (I'm guessing here) and would never make it necessary to "move"
the car stops.”

Fred, this raises several questions for me. I’ll start with the radial line first.
1- After the radial began operating in 1896, did the peaple whose homes faced Beach Road, now have to cross the radial tracks to get to it?
2- Did the peaple who owned houses on the beach, own the land, or lease it?And
3- Were the radial line and the Hamilton and North Western Railroad, built on land that had previously been occupied (either leased or owned,which ever the case was)by the home owners?
4- If the land was ‘leased’ did the home owners have any say in giving up that land?

And, were there any homes on the west side of Beach Road?

 

[David O'Reilly]

Charles Cooper has indicated in another e-mail, that the “Beach train” was an interurban service that ran between the Hamilton and North Western Railroad’s (H&NW) station on Ferguson Avenue in Hamilton,and a point in Burlington near the Freeman Station on the Great Western Railroad (GWR) line. In Burlington, a turntable was put in place to turn the engine around for the return trip. In Hamilton, the company’s turntable located at Ferguson Avenue and Barton Street was used.

In addition,Mr. Cooper indicated that the H&NW seased operating this service in 1896 when the Hamilton Radial Electric Railroad (HRER) opened its route from down town Hamilton to the Burlington Canal